Timeless Wisdom for Changing Times:
An Interview With Thaayrohyadi, Toltec Wisdom Keeper
by Leslee Goodman
Dabadi Thaayrohyadi is spiritual leader, wisdom keeper, and sacred guardian of the Otomi Olmec Toltec Teotihuacan lineage of Central Mexico. He is also the founder and director of Indigenous University, which his elders proposed 35 years ago as a university without walls—taking place in nature and among sacred sites and sharing traditional knowledge “of the ways of the ancestors and protocols of the elders.” Indigenous University offers programs in Mexico, the United States, Argentina, Bolivia, and other continents.
In 1999, Thaay’s elders also received the message that it was time to reinstate the 8,000 Sacred Drums ceremony, which had been a tradition of his people for some 4,000 years, until the arrival of and persecution by the Spanish. The ancestors knew that the time would come when indigenous knowledge would again be needed and foretold that the Great Healing of the Earth and of our relationships with all our relations would begin when the sound of 8,000 drums was heard in the Otomi Toltec region again.
Since 2004, participation in the annual ceremony, which takes place during the spring equinox—which is also the Otomi New Year—has been held building. In 2011, the sound of 4,000 drums was heard together. Thaay is now on a year-long pilgrimage to call “all brothers and sisters, light workers, peace keepers, earth keepers, wisdom keepers—all our relations—to come together” in Toluca, Mexico, the week of March 14-21, 2012. He says, “When the sound of 8,000 drums is heard together, we will begin healing of the Earth and our walk together on the path to Sacred Peace.”
Vision Magazine: What is the significance of 8,000 drums?
Dabadi Thaayrohyadi: Eight thousand symbolizes infinity, and the drum symbolizes the human heart. We each carry a drum within us, and when our drums beat in harmony we treat the earth and each other with respect. We become balanced, and our balanced energy helps to restore balance on the earth. When we are in harmony, there is no war. When we are in harmony, there is no greed. When we are in harmony, we care for each other.
The vibration of 8,000 drums beating together sends powerful energy to the spirit world and to the natural world that the people of Earth are waking up. That our hearts are coming into alignment. Our elders say that healing the drum of the human heart sends healing wherever that person goes—into government, business, into the family, the community, into nature. That’s why healing the heart is so important.
VM: What does the heart need to be healed of?
DT: Painful memories—from this life or previous ones. The history of humanity includes a lot of suffering. Indigenous people know this well. The poisonous treatment of the earth and of our brothers and sisters is not just from the past; it continues today also. For example, to associate our ancestor and elder “Geronimo” with terrorism and murder doesn’t help to heal relations between indigenous people and Europeans. This doesn’t mean that the people who chose this name are bad people. It means they were not aware of how their decision would affect others. So once we explain our position, it is our responsibility to forgive and return to our mission on this Earth, which is to be happy and to live in harmony with the earth and each other. Our elders say that every day is a good day for releasing anger, sadness, jealousy, fear, and all of the negative emotions. It is time for the Great Healing to begin. Everyone must take responsibility and action on this issue in order to release bad memories, heal historical wounds, and to transmute the pains of humans, families, clans, and all living beings. We need to “heal our heart” with all our relations. This is a call for all colors, all the peoples and lineages.
VM: You are also the founder of Indigenous University. What is its role in the “Great Healing” you speak of?
DT: There is an urgently felt need for a return to indigenous knowledge in all areas. The dominant culture’s dependence on extraction, exhaustion, and depletion of Mother Earth cannot continue. Mother Earth is responding with floods, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, and other means of signaling her distress. Western medicine is becoming so expensive that few people can afford it. And besides, it treats only the symptoms; it does not address the spiritual, social, and emotional roots that are the cause of human illness.
The modern world erroneously labels shamanic practices as primitive and many traditional techniques have been lost through the European colonization of the “new world.” In fact, energy healing protocols are enlightening and effective. We have seen many miracles—what others might call inexplicable outcomes. Our teachers say that there is no illness that cannot be healed. No illness is “terminal.” This is not a claim that Western medicine can make. Indigenous University offers teaching in five main areas of indigenous knowledge: indigenous spirituality; traditional medicine; mother languages; indigenous rights; and indigenous arts. All of these areas of knowledge carry a vibration that, properly understood and used, is healing. It restores balance—in ourselves and in our environment. Each indigenous language, for example, carries a vibration that is tied to its place of origin. Our mother languages contain well-organized codes for indigenous wisdom, and when we reconnect with this vibration and these codes, we can recover our completeness, our fullness. Similarly, people hunger for the knowledge of our ancestors that can teach us what plants to eat, what plants to use for healing, how to be attuned to the animals, to the elements, so that our actions are harmonious, so that we live in a good way. The way of the dominant culture cannot continue, and when it fails, people will need to remember—or relearn—the ancient ways that served humanity well for tens of thousands of years.
VM: So will we all go back to living as our ancestors lived?
DT: We can’t speak for everyone. But if you know how to grow your own food, you can eat, even if you have no money. If you know the medicinal value of plants, you may not have to go to the hospital, or even to the drug store. If you have a practice of sharing with others, you can benefit from your neighbors’ resources, and they can benefit from yours. The dominant culture wants to impose its destruction and consumption and teach us that this is the only way to be happy. But there are other ways of living, eating, clothing oneself, creating community, and being happy. These other ways are what Indigenous University teaches.
VM: What about people who live in major metropolitan areas, like Los Angeles? What good does indigenous knowledge do for them?
DT: The most important thing is to appreciate the nature and beauty you do have access to. Water flows from the tap, does it not? Thank Mother Earth for the water. Acknowledge the sacredness and healing powers of the water. Walk outdoors and look up at the sky. Be grateful for the sky, for the birds, the clouds, the breeze. A bit of grass, a potted plant—honor beauty and nature wherever you find it. Become aware and appreciative. In this way, you teach yourself to be present to the moment, to be connected to all that is. This is the indigenous way.
VM: The theme of this issue is “Magnitude of Mind.” What does “Mind” mean to you?
DT: Mind is the universal intelligence that expresses itself through all Creation. It is heart intelligence, meaning it is love intelligence. Mind is in everything and it is the means through which co-creation is possible. Mind is co-creation. It is the means through which all things are connected; therefore, Mind also means unity. The Mind in me is the same Mind that is in you, which is the same Mind that is in everything.
VM: And what does “Magnitude of Mind” mean to you?
DT: Mind is infinite—that is the magnitude of it. It does not end, in either the microcosm or the macrocosm. This is because Mind is co-creative. It is continually expressing itself. And each of its creations contains the same creative love intelligence, and continues to create—without end. The Mind that is in the cell creates new cells. The Mind that is in the galaxy creates new galaxies. As above, so below. World without end.
VM: There is so much environmental destruction—and so much suffering—that has already taken place on our planet. Do your ancestors think humanity can survive?
DT: Oh yes. This is not a time to say, “The Earth is going to be destroyed. It’s too late. There’s nothing we can do.”
The ancestors say that there are six billion of Earth’s seven billion people who want to live harmoniously who are Earth keepers, peace keepers, light workers, wisdom keepers, indigenous and non-indigenous people. Together we make a very powerful healing vibration.
Western culture doesn’t understand the power of vibration. The materialist worldview believes that the only energy that matters is the kind you plug in, or that you burn in an engine. They believe in sound healing, but only if it’s ultrasound. They believe in light healing, but only if it’s a laser. They don’t realize the subtler vibrations—the power of thoughts, intentions, words, and actions. We are all vibrating. Every atom in every cell is vibrating. When we vibrate harmoniously we extend order and harmony throughout our environment. The natural world responds to this, as do our fellow humans. In 2004, a council of elders and wisdom keepers from the Otomi Toltec people and from other Indian nations came to the Grand Tetons to pray for the restoration of balance to prevent the eruption of the Yellowstone caldera that the US Geological Survey predicted would take place. Thousands of people prayed, chanted, drummed, and performed ceremonies for four days across a medicine wheel that encompassed 400 miles. The volcano’s eruption was averted. The same year, a 120-mile radius medicine wheel was created around Big Bear Lake. Prayers, drumming, chanting, and ceremony were performed to bring healing rains and snow to the area. Afterwards, there were healing ceremonies conducted in Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, the East Coast, Canada, Mexico, Central and South America, Europe, and Africa. These ceremonies were for the healing of pollution, drought, and other imbalances, such as those created by mining operations, dams, airports, oil spills, tourist centers, industries, highways—all kinds of human activity. They were also for the imbalances represented by bird kills, bee colony collapse, butterfly die-offs, and fish kills. The earth is in distress, yet people have the power to heal and alleviate this distress. This is the power of intention, of energy, of prayer and vibration.
VM: Do you have hope for humanity?
DT: Yes. Yes, of course. The ancestors say yes.
It is true that many people will not survive the changes that are coming, as they have not survived recent earthquakes, floods, and tornadoes. But if you are aligned with what is happening you will know how to prepare and protect yourself and others. If you cross the desert bringing food and water, you will survive the crossing. But if you build your house in a dry riverbed, your house will probably one day be flooded. Respect our Mother, the earth, live in harmony with her, and Mother Earth will respect you. Walk in the beauty. Be grateful as Mother Earth is generous with you. Learn the power of infinite gratitude; offer her your life in a good way, in a sacred way.
VM: Even if we mean to respect Mother Earth, so many of the systems we have created are harmful to her. It is nearly impossible, for example, to live in Western society and not participate in fossil-fuel consumption or contribute to global warming. How can we respect Mother Earth while continuing to participate in her destruction?
DT: It is all about intention. The more you intend to respect and appreciate the natural world—the more you see it as alive and beautiful and sacred—the more you will find your attitudes and actions changing. You will find that you are happy with less. You will become less of a consumer. When you do consume, you will be aware of the consequences of your consumption—the offering that other beings made so that you could consume. And you will begin to think of your own life as an offering as well. This may change the very idea of what you think of as your purpose. It may awaken you to the sense that we live in community, a community that is our responsibility—and also our joy—to care for. You become aware that your actions affect everything around you, even affect the entire universe. You will participate in destructive systems less and less, and if those systems collapse, because the present path we are on is unsustainable, you will already have learned a new, more harmonious way to live.
The prophecy of the 8,000 Sacred Drums is meant as a call to action. It’s not just an opportunity to say, “I have a heart, let’s drum.” It’s also a call to take responsibility. It’s a call to cooperate, to respect, and to love. It’s a call to realize that every thought you think and everything you say and do has a powerful vibration—for better or worse.
Our elders want to invite us to keep peace, harmony, and hope. The hope they speak of inspires action. We must nourish and heal our relationships every day. Live in joy every day. This is the most important thing we can do. Live with compassion, forgiveness, and understanding that everything we do to others, we also do to ourselves. Unity is sacred. When you understand unity you will not harm another. You will not harm the earth, which is alive, and so is also “another.”
VM: If people want to participate in the 8000 Sacred Drum ceremony next March, what should they do?
DT: We intend to hold preliminary events on the summer and winter solstices and the fall equinox in Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Miami, Denver, Atlanta, Washington, DC, Chicago, and New York. We invite people to organize events in their area and synchronize their drumming and intention by registering their events on the 8000 Sacred Drums Web site, which is www.8000drums.com. And we invite all our brothers and sisters to plan now to be at the Otomi Olmec Ceremonial Center near Toluca, Mexico, the week of March 21-25, 2012. Together we will begin the Great Healing and walk together the Sacred Path of Peace.
To learn more about Dabadi Thaayrohyadi and the International Indigenous University,
please visit www.indigenousuniversity.org.Leslee Goodman is a freelance writer who divides her time between Ojai, CA and
Methow Valley, WA. Find her at www.lesleegoodman.com.